One Step Forward, Two Steps Back
Dec. 6th, 2012 08:55 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
gateslackerWow, there's been a virtual explosion of "WTH" after "Citizen Fang." Strangely, I find myself in the apparent minority in that I'm not feeling one iota of kerfuffle. Nope, I really liked the episode and I CANNOT wait to see what happens next. It reinforced once again why this show has taken over the top spot for me by making me think about it whenever I possibly could today. So, for what it's worth, here's my two cents about the general response and how I see it:
Rant theme number one: "The boys were total douchebags and there's simply no hope for them now. None."
I guess I don't see how their actions in this episode spell the end of any salvageable relationship. Dean can be a real dick. Sam can be a real dick. They are usually the dickiest to one another. To me, the boys have ALWAYS had those times were they are completely awful to one another. And they do it over and over and over. Over the course of seven seasons I have sighed, gasped, and wailed as my heart was taken out and stomped on again and again. Much of this is pretty fresh in my memory, too, which may be why I am reacting somewhat differently. "When the Levee Breaks" BROKE ME. Nothing before or since has hurt nearly as much as that episode did. The relationship between the boys in this episode was brutal and painful but, for me, it was NOTHING compared to that episode.
Conversely, my heart has been broken in a completely different way with what they have done for one another; how much they love one another; how much it hurts them to be without the other.
That's passion folks. Their life has been a rather dramatic whirlwind and we are just along for the ride. Sam and Dean are never, ever going to be the type to hash things out logically and rationally or engage in a heart to heart that has no chance whatsoever of ever turning bloody. And you know what? I don't think we can have that wonderful and engaging bond between them without accepting that they can be total asses sometimes, too. It's just not them! To tell the truth, if that was them, I think we'd have been bored a long time ago. Because it is this relationship, a bond that is by turns passionate and profound; beautiful and broken, that sucks us in. We enjoy this whirlwind ride even when it's painful.
So, Dean, you are a total dick for sending that text to Sam. It was a really low blow. I really hope you didn't realize how awful it was going to be for Sam when he got there. But, I can understand why you did it. I know you feel betrayed by what Sam did not do when you were gone because you tell him every chance you get. By the way, could you pour any more salt in that wound by constantly letting it be known how Benny has never let you down (like Sam, did).
But, I feel bad for you, too, because you knew what Sam would do when you sent the text but, secretly, you wish you had been wrong. Sam dropped the hunt and you like a hot potato and that's just got to cut.
And I can feel how you were really trying in the beginning. You were being all understanding about Sam keeping an eye on Benny because, honestly, it's what you would do. Telling Benny that he shouldn't underestimate Sam made me want to hug you!
Sam, you are a total dick for leaving Dean tied up in that room while you ran off with Martin. Seriously, man, that was a really low blow, given that you've let a few monsters off the hook in the past. I can understand why you did it. I know you feel betrayed by Dean's trust in his new BFF. He tells you every chance he gets. I know you feel guilty, too, because you wear that so well. Still, you have to know you're being a giant hypocrite, dontcha, and it's not gonna sit right if you kill Dean's BFF for no good reason. Plus, you've got a phone. Use it. What is up with leaving in the middle of a hunt without telling anyone.
But I feel bad for you. I know it must seem that Dean is choosing his BFF over you and, at the end, that Amelia made Don her choice over you as well. You've tried to be understanding despite your jealousy and fear of losing someone else and that's gotta cut.
And I can feel you were really trying in the beginning. You gave Dean the time to find out what was going on because, honestly, that's the trust you want Dean to give you. Vehemently defending Dean when Martin was dissing him terribly made me want to kiss you!
All of it; the whole lot of it falls into their pattern and the sense I'm left with is that it is all coming to a head.
Rant theme number 2: "I don't care about seeing the life and times of Amelia and/or Benny"
I did have to laugh about this one because, in one post, I read "I can't believe we ended the episode with boring Amelia" while in another I read "I can't believe we've had two episode that are about boring Benny"
I don't get it. Sure, it's true that I find them both intriguing but from a story perspective, we have to get to know them. They are, after all, the "significant others" for the brothers during their year apart. Whether you like Amelia or not, you have to know what went down with her and Sam to understand where Sam is at and who he is now. Ditto, Benny and Dean. And maybe we just need to know them and their story before going in to the rest of the season. I can get a little irritated in shows that introduce this Very. Important. Character out of nowhere that we have never seen before but who is vital to the ongoing arc and important to the characters or to the resolution of a story. It has happened time and time again and it ALWAYS feels contrived. I ALWAYS feel manipulated. Sometimes it just PISSES ME OFF (*cough* Captain Jack Harkness' grandson *cough*) So, I'd rather have the flashbacks we've had than an episode down the road that says "Meet Benny/Amelia. He/She was very important to Dean/Sam during his time in Purgatory/Kermit, Tx. Sure, you don't know them but they are gonna be important later and we've got one episode to make you love 'em and/or hate 'em and/or be totally gobsmacked by the gladness and/or sadness when things go horribly wrong."
I don't think the flashbacks have really monopolized the story and I've always been left wanting to know more and maybe that is it. In the past, any domesticity (like Exile on Main Street) and flashbacks (like I know what you did last summer) were dealt with (mostly) in one episode. Here, we have the little bits spread over these first 9 episodes. Breadcrumb story telling is certainly tantalizing but it can be incredibly frustrating for the viewer as well not to mention that we perceive it as taking over every episode when, in reality, it has only been small pieces of the story scattered about. In any case, I am still interested in seeing where it's all going.
Rant theme number 3 "I'm so painfully disappointed that there isn't a *Good* reason for Sam not looking for Dean."
And by good reason, we mean "life is but a dream" or "angels in the outfield" or even "the devil made me do it." Admittedly, I find the idea of outside manipulation, especially the "dream" scenario, intriguing because, well, it does fit the theme of the show. Plus, in re- watching episodes such as "Mystery Spot" and "Dream a Little Dream of Me" I got really fascinated by the idea that it was all in Sam's head or hadn't really happened (and the idea of a certain level of synchronicity what with Carver penning these episodes.) This episode really seemed to quash any of that line of thinking and that can be hard when you expect a "good reason" for character to act a certain way or in a way that you don't agree with. Thankfully, I did find my disappointment pretty brief, albeit sharp, and I am still left with the feeling that there is more to it than we yet know.
But, after my moment of bitter disappointment I felt ashamed that the idea of Sam's overwhelming alone-ness and "world imploding" grief was simply not enough for me. Seriously, Glenda!?! And I've been sad for Sam at how he is villainized for acting in a realistically emotional way. I felt his quiet sadness was pretty obvious from the first flashback and that was really driven home by the flashbacks with Amelia's father. I hurt for him in that episode. It is rather hypocritical of us to want Sam and Dean to behave, react, and respond to one another in "mature" and realistic ways when we cannot allow Sam to have a grief response that is painfully realistic. Would we do that if the tables were turned and it was Dean who ran. Honestly? I don't think we would because we tend to forgive Dean easier than we do Sam. Even I, with my Samgirl leanings, have come to realize that I have this tendency to cut Dean more slack than I do Sam.
Other bits that I want to comment on.
So, was the mysterious figure in episode one supposed to be Don? I missed that explanation and there's pretty much nothing to temper that disappointment if it was Don. Total letdown, there.
Wow, recycle actors much? I recognized the actress who played Elizabeth right off. First I was all, "Seriously?" Then I was chuckling at the idea that there were two recycled actors in this episode. I got over it because Elizabeth was different and I give her kudos for making me see someone different.
Finally, I know there's some Carver bashing but I just can't do it. Aside from the fact that I am loving this season (as a whole more than 7, I'll admit, though 7 has some amazing, standout eps). I also just have to give the benefit of the doubt to the person who brought us "A Very Supernatural Christmas" whereby we had epic bromo from weechesters and Winchesters alike.
Therefore, I have hope that the boys will work things out and it will be a lovely sight to behold, as always!
Rant theme number one: "The boys were total douchebags and there's simply no hope for them now. None."
I guess I don't see how their actions in this episode spell the end of any salvageable relationship. Dean can be a real dick. Sam can be a real dick. They are usually the dickiest to one another. To me, the boys have ALWAYS had those times were they are completely awful to one another. And they do it over and over and over. Over the course of seven seasons I have sighed, gasped, and wailed as my heart was taken out and stomped on again and again. Much of this is pretty fresh in my memory, too, which may be why I am reacting somewhat differently. "When the Levee Breaks" BROKE ME. Nothing before or since has hurt nearly as much as that episode did. The relationship between the boys in this episode was brutal and painful but, for me, it was NOTHING compared to that episode.
Conversely, my heart has been broken in a completely different way with what they have done for one another; how much they love one another; how much it hurts them to be without the other.
That's passion folks. Their life has been a rather dramatic whirlwind and we are just along for the ride. Sam and Dean are never, ever going to be the type to hash things out logically and rationally or engage in a heart to heart that has no chance whatsoever of ever turning bloody. And you know what? I don't think we can have that wonderful and engaging bond between them without accepting that they can be total asses sometimes, too. It's just not them! To tell the truth, if that was them, I think we'd have been bored a long time ago. Because it is this relationship, a bond that is by turns passionate and profound; beautiful and broken, that sucks us in. We enjoy this whirlwind ride even when it's painful.
So, Dean, you are a total dick for sending that text to Sam. It was a really low blow. I really hope you didn't realize how awful it was going to be for Sam when he got there. But, I can understand why you did it. I know you feel betrayed by what Sam did not do when you were gone because you tell him every chance you get. By the way, could you pour any more salt in that wound by constantly letting it be known how Benny has never let you down (like Sam, did).
But, I feel bad for you, too, because you knew what Sam would do when you sent the text but, secretly, you wish you had been wrong. Sam dropped the hunt and you like a hot potato and that's just got to cut.
And I can feel how you were really trying in the beginning. You were being all understanding about Sam keeping an eye on Benny because, honestly, it's what you would do. Telling Benny that he shouldn't underestimate Sam made me want to hug you!
Sam, you are a total dick for leaving Dean tied up in that room while you ran off with Martin. Seriously, man, that was a really low blow, given that you've let a few monsters off the hook in the past. I can understand why you did it. I know you feel betrayed by Dean's trust in his new BFF. He tells you every chance he gets. I know you feel guilty, too, because you wear that so well. Still, you have to know you're being a giant hypocrite, dontcha, and it's not gonna sit right if you kill Dean's BFF for no good reason. Plus, you've got a phone. Use it. What is up with leaving in the middle of a hunt without telling anyone.
But I feel bad for you. I know it must seem that Dean is choosing his BFF over you and, at the end, that Amelia made Don her choice over you as well. You've tried to be understanding despite your jealousy and fear of losing someone else and that's gotta cut.
And I can feel you were really trying in the beginning. You gave Dean the time to find out what was going on because, honestly, that's the trust you want Dean to give you. Vehemently defending Dean when Martin was dissing him terribly made me want to kiss you!
All of it; the whole lot of it falls into their pattern and the sense I'm left with is that it is all coming to a head.
Rant theme number 2: "I don't care about seeing the life and times of Amelia and/or Benny"
I did have to laugh about this one because, in one post, I read "I can't believe we ended the episode with boring Amelia" while in another I read "I can't believe we've had two episode that are about boring Benny"
I don't get it. Sure, it's true that I find them both intriguing but from a story perspective, we have to get to know them. They are, after all, the "significant others" for the brothers during their year apart. Whether you like Amelia or not, you have to know what went down with her and Sam to understand where Sam is at and who he is now. Ditto, Benny and Dean. And maybe we just need to know them and their story before going in to the rest of the season. I can get a little irritated in shows that introduce this Very. Important. Character out of nowhere that we have never seen before but who is vital to the ongoing arc and important to the characters or to the resolution of a story. It has happened time and time again and it ALWAYS feels contrived. I ALWAYS feel manipulated. Sometimes it just PISSES ME OFF (*cough* Captain Jack Harkness' grandson *cough*) So, I'd rather have the flashbacks we've had than an episode down the road that says "Meet Benny/Amelia. He/She was very important to Dean/Sam during his time in Purgatory/Kermit, Tx. Sure, you don't know them but they are gonna be important later and we've got one episode to make you love 'em and/or hate 'em and/or be totally gobsmacked by the gladness and/or sadness when things go horribly wrong."
I don't think the flashbacks have really monopolized the story and I've always been left wanting to know more and maybe that is it. In the past, any domesticity (like Exile on Main Street) and flashbacks (like I know what you did last summer) were dealt with (mostly) in one episode. Here, we have the little bits spread over these first 9 episodes. Breadcrumb story telling is certainly tantalizing but it can be incredibly frustrating for the viewer as well not to mention that we perceive it as taking over every episode when, in reality, it has only been small pieces of the story scattered about. In any case, I am still interested in seeing where it's all going.
Rant theme number 3 "I'm so painfully disappointed that there isn't a *Good* reason for Sam not looking for Dean."
And by good reason, we mean "life is but a dream" or "angels in the outfield" or even "the devil made me do it." Admittedly, I find the idea of outside manipulation, especially the "dream" scenario, intriguing because, well, it does fit the theme of the show. Plus, in re- watching episodes such as "Mystery Spot" and "Dream a Little Dream of Me" I got really fascinated by the idea that it was all in Sam's head or hadn't really happened (and the idea of a certain level of synchronicity what with Carver penning these episodes.) This episode really seemed to quash any of that line of thinking and that can be hard when you expect a "good reason" for character to act a certain way or in a way that you don't agree with. Thankfully, I did find my disappointment pretty brief, albeit sharp, and I am still left with the feeling that there is more to it than we yet know.
But, after my moment of bitter disappointment I felt ashamed that the idea of Sam's overwhelming alone-ness and "world imploding" grief was simply not enough for me. Seriously, Glenda!?! And I've been sad for Sam at how he is villainized for acting in a realistically emotional way. I felt his quiet sadness was pretty obvious from the first flashback and that was really driven home by the flashbacks with Amelia's father. I hurt for him in that episode. It is rather hypocritical of us to want Sam and Dean to behave, react, and respond to one another in "mature" and realistic ways when we cannot allow Sam to have a grief response that is painfully realistic. Would we do that if the tables were turned and it was Dean who ran. Honestly? I don't think we would because we tend to forgive Dean easier than we do Sam. Even I, with my Samgirl leanings, have come to realize that I have this tendency to cut Dean more slack than I do Sam.
Other bits that I want to comment on.
So, was the mysterious figure in episode one supposed to be Don? I missed that explanation and there's pretty much nothing to temper that disappointment if it was Don. Total letdown, there.
Wow, recycle actors much? I recognized the actress who played Elizabeth right off. First I was all, "Seriously?" Then I was chuckling at the idea that there were two recycled actors in this episode. I got over it because Elizabeth was different and I give her kudos for making me see someone different.
Finally, I know there's some Carver bashing but I just can't do it. Aside from the fact that I am loving this season (as a whole more than 7, I'll admit, though 7 has some amazing, standout eps). I also just have to give the benefit of the doubt to the person who brought us "A Very Supernatural Christmas" whereby we had epic bromo from weechesters and Winchesters alike.
Therefore, I have hope that the boys will work things out and it will be a lovely sight to behold, as always!
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no subject
Date: 2012-12-07 04:14 am (UTC)Right? RIGHT?! I am so into it! The one structural criticism I'll sort of buy is that it was definitely the setup and not the punch line, but that's how two-parters work, so I'm not about to call the wahmbulence.
Sam and Dean are never, ever going to be the type to hash things out logically and rationally or engage in a heart to heart that has no chance whatsoever of ever turning bloody.
I legitimately don't get why this is so bad. Who in the WORLD would sit around for eight seasons of "Superhuman Sharing and Caring Skills"?! NOT ME.
So, Dean, you are a total dick for sending that text to Sam.
You know, it's not the sending the text that I find truly awful? It's that he took it upon himself to cut Sam off from his ONLY support network by deleting her number. That is some goddamn Edward Cullen shit right there.
it's not gonna sit right if you kill Dean's BFF for no good reason.
I don't think that's about Benny. I think that's about Amy Pond. Saving Sam's life didn't get her clemency, even though she did have a long pattern of behavior which backed up her story that she was trying to live as straight as she could. Whereas Benny's "it wasn't me, it was...that other vampire!" story is still tenuous from the omniscient audience POV, let alone from Sam's and Martin's.
I mean, I'm clearly on Team Sam, but...it's not for no reason, dude. I can be okay with a character doing more terrible things than another character, as long as the narrative recognizes it? And I think S8 very much does.
#2
The "but Amelia suxxxxx! why is this a soap opera suddenly?!???"...I'm willing to accept the possibility that it's not ALL motivated by internalized misogyny, but I'm not real generous with the benefit of the doubt.
#3
I felt his quiet sadness was pretty obvious from the first flashback and that was really driven home by the flashbacks with Amelia's father. I hurt for him in that episode. It is rather hypocritical of us to want Sam and Dean to behave, react, and respond to one another in "mature" and realistic ways when we cannot allow Sam to have a grief response that is painfully realistic.
well you know how I feel about this. And if I didn't accept that as a reason, well, I'd have to do an awful lot of fanwanking about Dean's "good enough" reason for not trying to get Cas out. I get that he was a mess and he couldn't handle it, and neither could Sam.
Wow, recycle actors much?
I was too busy squeeing about Billy Keikeya to notice, honestly.
no subject
Date: 2012-12-08 01:43 am (UTC)LOL! Yes, I sometimes have to wonder just on what level Dean could ever think that was RIGHT. And while I don't quite see Dean the same way you do, that's some pretty controlling BS right there. What I waffle over (I'm always waffling-I LOVE YOU SHOW) is whether Dean is actually even aware of just how demeaning and controlling and wrong it really is because, let's face it, such behavior is pretty standard if you are following the Winchester Way. I'm not a John Winchester hater or anything but he was pretty obsessively crazy cakes and he really messed these boys up but good with regard to building healthy relationships.
As for Benny. I guess I didn't find his behavior as tenuous or suspicious as you. Even Martin says that he watched him for quite some time before the first murder ever happened. And, sure, Benny could have reached that point where he finally caved but it could also very well be that Desmond rolled into town just as Benny said he did. Perhaps I am naive but I do feel that his intentions are on the up and up and I did feel that although he is struggling, he was staying true to the plan. So far his story tracks, even down to the girl he gave up vamping for and left then left behind. I also feel that having Elizabeth know who and what he really is was the last thing he ever wanted to happen so suddenly giving in to his inner vamp after making that effort to reconnect with "home" just doesn't track with me. I know that all we have is Benny's word (and Ruby had me going for awhile, too) but I'm buying it for the moment. Dean's explanation of the Benny/Desmond thing is as convincing to me as Sam's explanation of Amy/mortician/sick kid thing.
Dean's a total hypocrite, expecting Sam to just let a vampire go based on trust alone what with his actions and attitude in the past. But Sam's not hypocrite free, either. His actions in the past would lead you to suspect that he would come closer to understanding where Dean is coming from than anyone. Just as Amy saved Sam's life, Benny had Dean's back in purgatory. Sure, he gave Dean time to check into it but he didn't trust Dean any more than Dean trusted him with regard to Amy Pond and, as much as my heart aches for him SO BAD in this episode, his hunter motives are not pure. For a multitude of reasons that I could spend a great amount of time pondering, Sam wants Benny to go darkside. He wants to kill him.
Well, good grief. I'm blabbering enough to need two posts.
no subject
Date: 2012-12-08 01:44 am (UTC)When I'm trying to look at it objectively, and that is SOOOO HARD with this show, Amy was killing and she was killing people who were not a direct threat to her or her son. It was not self-defense and she did it to get something she needed for her son. Who's to say that she wouldn't resort to killing again the next time her son became sick? Though it pains me and Dean handled it in the usual lying Winchester way, I am not convinced it was the wrong thing to do.
With Benny, Martin was a direct threat to his only family, Elizabeth. He had a knife to her throat. Martin was unhinged and, during that scene I actually thought Martin was going to kill her and that that was going to unleash the Benny vamp. (I also imagined a scenario where he then went after Sam in an act of vengeance because he knows Sam is the one to send Martin but, I guess, now that's a story for fanfic.) Benny was being threatened and goaded by Martin. Sure he could have come up with another way but Benny was in that fight or flight moment. He killed in defense of himself and his family first and then he took what he needed. His reasons for killing here were not driven by his inner monster.
I get that he was a mess and he couldn't handle it, and neither could Sam
YES!!!
Thanks so much for the fun discussion!
no subject
Date: 2012-12-08 03:56 am (UTC)It scanned as being much darker to me. I think he went after her not in spite of Sam's wishes, but because Amy was good for Sam. If Amy chose Sam over her family, then Sam can trust her and has a safety net outside of Dean. Family being Always Most Important is the foundational thing to Dean, because then he doesn't have to examine his own life too closely - he can think that he doesn't have a choice in the awful stuff he's been through, and that there are actual standards for how he should be behaving toward Sam.
Moreover, If Amy can be okay, and can mostly manage her issues, then Sam will start to get ideas. If Sam says Amy is okay, she must be awful, because Sam Is Always Wrong. I definitely don't think he worked that through on a conscious level, but it's tough to discount, particularly now that he's pulling the kind of crap he did in this episode. I see why he rationalizes Benny being different, I just don't find it particularly convincing.
Thank you! I'm really enjoying your thoughts.
no subject
Date: 2012-12-31 06:14 pm (UTC)It scanned as being much darker to me. I think he went after her not in spite of Sam's wishes, but because Amy was good for Sam
Wow, that is a pretty dark take. They are co-dependent as hell, especially Dean, but I just don't see Dean in quite the same way though, you know, I do find your take fascinating and I love reading how you see him. For all his faults and his controlling behavior, he is just not quite that person for me. IDK. I genuinely like Dean and I don't really know if I could continue to do so if I saw him the way you see him.
no subject
Date: 2012-12-08 03:47 am (UTC)I mean, I don't think he does think it's right. If anything, the appeal of GETTING EVEN with Sam for ABANDONING him was part of the motivation on at least a subconscious level.
whether Dean is actually even aware of just how demeaning and controlling and wrong it really is because, let's face it, such behavior is pretty standard if you are following the Winchester Way. I'm not a John Winchester hater or anything but he was pretty obsessively crazy cakes and he really messed these boys up but good with regard to building healthy relationships.
Yeah, I think that's a really important point. I think my frustration - even though it's a development that I know, rationally, makes sense - is that while the seeds of this behavior were there when John was around, they weren't this bad, you know? His pressure on Sam to keep away from his Stanford friends was definitely a warning sign, but it wasn't THIS. And this is happening - yes, after the trauma of the last few years, but also, after he's had a ton of time to grow up, develop a sense of purpose, and has a ton of support from Cas and Sam. His behavior is determined by his reasons to be a jerk, not his opportunities to be the guy he could be. And that, as human and believable as it is, is hard for me to get past.
I like John as a character, actually? And on some extremely unflattering level I kind of understand where a lot of his behavior came from. But yeah, it's...rarely overstated, how irresponsible and abusive he was toward his own kids.
Even Martin says that he watched him for quite some time before the first murder ever happened.
Well, a week. Which I like, as a viewer, because it's exactly enough time that we could draw whatever conclusions we want from it.
no subject
Date: 2013-04-06 12:19 am (UTC)Anyway, I 100% agree with you on all you said about Dean and Sam and being dicks to each other and yet how they'll keep coming back because that's who they are.
I didn't really understand what Dean did to Amelia's cell phone. How did he send a text "from her," and that cut Sam off from reaching her? I need to review!
Finally, I can't believe anyone thought the flashbacks were boring! WTH?!? I actually found Sam's more interesting than Dean's, although those were pretty thrilling and suspenseful. How can you care anything about Sam and not be interested in how he's making his way all alone in the world? And you know it didn't end well, so...more suspense! I couldn't wait to see what happened. Maybe part of this is a kink of mine - our heros interacting with the regular world and keeping their real selves secret. Like in Stargate when Daniel goes to his professor's funeral and Atlantis when Rodney and Keller go to that science conference. I love that! But I think a lot of it is seeing Sam actually sort of happy for once.